when the head of India visitshe doesn't assume a right to tour the country, holding large meetings, at our expense. I mean, for fuck's sake, there's a high possibility he's going to go to Belfast.
He is the leader of an organisation with around a billion members.I'm sure you wouldn't object quite so vehemently if we were spending £20mon a state visit from india, and the indian president/prime minister probably has far, far fewer haters.
You're nearly foaming at the mouth about it, yet you probably wouldn't give a stuff if the head of india visited. Imagine the number of nutcases who want to do the pope harm. That's why it costs £20m.
You're nearly foaming at the mouth about it, yet you probably wouldn't give a stuff if the head of india visited. Imagine the number of nutcases who want to do the pope harm. That's why it costs £20m.
when the head of India visits Makes sense.I've heard there's a lot of catholics in belfast.
out of curiosity,how much did the dalai lama's last visit cost (in 2008 I think)?
And he is a much bigger cunt than the Pope...
that's irrelevant.Al's having a rant at a papal visit to this country costing the taxpayer £20m. I suspect he has no idea how much visits by similar people cost and he's worked up because he doesn't like the pope rather than a visit by a leader of a billion people, including many of our own population, costing that much.
I agree.I find the horrible prejudice which exists against Catholics amazing - if it were homosexuals or blacks nobody would do it - why do they shout at Catholics all the time?
I am not a Catholic, homosexual or black, but I don't like any bigotry.
I am not a Catholic, homosexual or black, but I don't like any bigotry.
I am a black, gay Catholic and can't say it bothers me
because gays and blacksaren't a highly organised single mass responsible for mass suffering and actively opposing efforts such as the drive to reduce AIDS transmission?
You're actively opposed to the Catholic church's teachingwith regards to aids. Presumably, then, abstinence doesn't reduce aids transmission? If not having sex reduced the transmission of aids then you too would be actively opposing the drive to reduce aids transmission.
Now, I agree that the catholic attitude to aids is terrible, but to mitigate a little if you say "Don't have premarital sex. Once married, stay married and stay faithful. Do not use condoms." and I ignore one part of that, you cannot be entirely to blame to for me coming to harm.
Now, I agree that the catholic attitude to aids is terrible, but to mitigate a little if you say "Don't have premarital sex. Once married, stay married and stay faithful. Do not use condoms." and I ignore one part of that, you cannot be entirely to blame to for me coming to harm.
Both the examples given are misquotes.The first was a proclamation that having sex except for procreation was against Catholic doctrine, which you and I might not agree with, but is hardly spreading aids.
The second was a desire to prevent a law which would allow sexually active homosexuals to work for an organisation which does not allow ANY sexually active members, which also seems reasonable to me.
Given the number of really shit things the Catholic church does, it amazes me that the two big stories in recent years have both just been bad journalism.
The second was a desire to prevent a law which would allow sexually active homosexuals to work for an organisation which does not allow ANY sexually active members, which also seems reasonable to me.
Given the number of really shit things the Catholic church does, it amazes me that the two big stories in recent years have both just been bad journalism.
when i have a childi am not going to let her have a bike helmet and instead just tell her not to fall off or get runover
Yes, because sex is just as likely to be a complete unwanted accidentas falling off a bike.
when i was a kidfalling off my bike was no biggy. i definitely did daft things that resulted in me falling off, and then did it again and fell off again. it is called having fun
if you tell people not to fuck and not to wear condoms, they are going to fuck and not wear condoms. anyone who thinks that telling people not to fuck is going to work is an absolute fucking retard
if you tell people not to fuck and not to wear condoms, they are going to fuck and not wear condoms. anyone who thinks that telling people not to fuck is going to work is an absolute fucking retard
Yes,because British lax morality is worldwide and no Roman Catholic (or Muslim, or whatever) communities have in any way managed to encourage their women not to fuck.
hahaha!i'm glad you agree with me
But what's so wrong with fuckingthat the religions want to stop everyone doing it?
It's a different, better and more immediate way ofachieving ecstasy than through the love of [whatever their alleged supreme being is].
It causes STDs and unwanted population explosionsas well as causing emotional turmoil amongst many individuals, not to mention the objectifying of humans.
I do not think that keeping fucking down to something you only do with people you trust is a terribly religious thing, just a morality thing.
I am not opposed to fucking, but I also hate marmite, without wanting to kill marmite eaters.
I do not think that keeping fucking down to something you only do with people you trust is a terribly religious thing, just a morality thing.
I am not opposed to fucking, but I also hate marmite, without wanting to kill marmite eaters.
who the fuck is talking about killing anyone? Who is talking about Marmite?I am not going to go down a straw man avenue.
you massive twat This is an debate about bigotry.If we fixate on a throw away Marmite comment then you may as well stand in the middle, shouting 'ALBATROSS!'.
you pathetic, snide coward.be a fucking man for once in your life and stand by what you said or retract it. who of us are you saying wants to kill catholics?
Then I shall retract it.It was clearly a throw away comment, but if you need me to clearly state this then I will.
welsh jesus would hate you if you did I loved that story.For one thing it looks like Bobby Charlton taking an emu for a walk and, for another, it's Marmite.
You can move Marmite around and make a picture.
Fucking BBC.
You can move Marmite around and make a picture.
Fucking BBC.
church weddingspay for the roof restoration funds
Now, here I probably disagree with you opinions as well as your bigotry.I think that churches should have a shit load of money thrown at them - most of them are in a terrible state of decay and, frankly, they are worth preserving.
Bear in mind that for me a church is a building, not a congregation.
Bear in mind that for me a church is a building, not a congregation.
I have to say,having lived in the communities in which we are referring to, and having lots of colleagues who have lived in them long term, this is what I think.....
In many ways, the lax morality attributed to the british is worse on the continent of Africa.
What is different is we will acknowledge it. There is a huge amount of hypocrisy in third world countries around morality as their aid, and the assistance they recieve, is tied into them "being moral".
This is why we, as an NGO, have no religious message. We don't tie our support or assistance into a moral code. We say "Abstinence is good, but if you can't help filling the pink love tunnel, always wear a condom"
The catholic church will not engage with sex workers to help and educate them. Big mistake.
And don't even get me started on abortion.
In many ways, the lax morality attributed to the british is worse on the continent of Africa.
What is different is we will acknowledge it. There is a huge amount of hypocrisy in third world countries around morality as their aid, and the assistance they recieve, is tied into them "being moral".
This is why we, as an NGO, have no religious message. We don't tie our support or assistance into a moral code. We say "Abstinence is good, but if you can't help filling the pink love tunnel, always wear a condom"
The catholic church will not engage with sex workers to help and educate them. Big mistake.
And don't even get me started on abortion.
You say it is a mistake (and I would do it)but evidence does show that sex education and the availability of contraception always leads to an increase in promiscuity and a subsequent rise in STD.
thats absolute bollocks,as we prepare the reports here.
Take a look at Rwanda. They have massive sex ed programs in school. They have huge billboard adverts everywhere with a smiling woman and man on saying "always use a condom".
Rwanda is a model of how to reduce HIV/AIDS incidence, reduce sti levels, reduce unwanted pregnancies, empower women, reduce rape, and leverage all of that into geting their economy up and running.
Now, South Africa. Complete opposite in message/education etc. One of the worst places in thwe world HIV wise. 1 in 4.
Take a look at Rwanda. They have massive sex ed programs in school. They have huge billboard adverts everywhere with a smiling woman and man on saying "always use a condom".
Rwanda is a model of how to reduce HIV/AIDS incidence, reduce sti levels, reduce unwanted pregnancies, empower women, reduce rape, and leverage all of that into geting their economy up and running.
Now, South Africa. Complete opposite in message/education etc. One of the worst places in thwe world HIV wise. 1 in 4.
lets hope the man u contingent of the england teamgo bareback
lols.Its a bloody dangerous place sex wise, thats for sure, and it doesn't help when the health minister believes Vitamins and Potatoes are a prevention and cure for the HIV, that HIV and AIDS are unrelated, and that AIDS is engineered by the western world and distributed through vaccines, in order to enslave and subjugate the black man further.
Stupid Bitch. Killing thousands a year.
Stupid Bitch. Killing thousands a year.
Now that's fucking evil.Proper Idi Amin shit.
jebuspol pot territory.. can't they just arrest her?
I am not claiming that education is not effective (although the Rwanda example is perhaps more fuelled by the massive reduction in rape?)
I am speaking solely of distribution of contraception.
The Catholic church does educate to reduce HIV/AIDS incidence, reduce sti levels, reduce unwanted pregnancies and reduce rape.
Not fucking is an excellent methodology to achieve this.
I am speaking solely of distribution of contraception.
The Catholic church does educate to reduce HIV/AIDS incidence, reduce sti levels, reduce unwanted pregnancies and reduce rape.
Not fucking is an excellent methodology to achieve this.
When we get right down to it,all you, and I, and every other person, is simply a fucking machine. We are designed to procreate.
You may as well tell the lion to go Vege.
Now, here's another point. Due to very high infant mortality on that Continent, they fuck more than we do. Historically they have had to. Its very hard to make a cultural u-turn in a short space of time.
The rape issue in Rwanda was mostly down to womens rights education.
Rwanda is also a very interesting country sexually speaking. Female ejaculation (i.e. squirting) is common place (3 in 4), and its one of the few places in that area of sub saharan africa where the men do not have a taste for "dry sex" as a preference.
You may as well tell the lion to go Vege.
Now, here's another point. Due to very high infant mortality on that Continent, they fuck more than we do. Historically they have had to. Its very hard to make a cultural u-turn in a short space of time.
The rape issue in Rwanda was mostly down to womens rights education.
Rwanda is also a very interesting country sexually speaking. Female ejaculation (i.e. squirting) is common place (3 in 4), and its one of the few places in that area of sub saharan africa where the men do not have a taste for "dry sex" as a preference.
Women's rights education is importantand I did miss that out deliberately, because I do not know that the RCs are hot on it.
also, no point telling women to stop fucking if rape is a problem.And if telling rapists not to fuck works, why do we send ours to prison ; )
we barely do`
i'm pretty sure jimknows the feeling
You,see FB
cor!message sent
I now have snot on my moustache.
I'm a baffled as to how otherwise normal, sensible peoplecan exhibit such blind hatred and bias about the Catholics.
when I have a child I'm going to make him wear a condom all the time in case he falls over and lands hilt deep in a HIV positive person.
when I have a child I'm going to make him wear a condom all the time in case he falls over and lands hilt deep in a HIV positive person.
i don't hate catholicsi just think the pope is an evil fucking cunt
to qoute Doug Stanhope badly,"Why are people worried that the Pope is an ex Nazi? The Nazi's were only around for 15 years and didn't do half of what the catholic church achieved. I'd be more worried if someone said "you know that Nazi is an ex pope!""
hahaha `
in what aspect is it blind and biased?have we not just put a whole load of posts here explaining our reasoned objections?
There is far more anti Catholic/pope sentimentthan there is facts relating to Catholic/papal behaviour.
It's fine to hate the pope and think all Catholics are wrong, but this thread contains a lot anger and statements that are too broad sweeping to be accurate.
"when i have a child i am not going to let her have a bike helmet and instead just tell her not to fall off or get runover" is not comparable to saying "No extramarital sex, no condoms".
It's fine to hate the pope and think all Catholics are wrong, but this thread contains a lot anger and statements that are too broad sweeping to be accurate.
"when i have a child i am not going to let her have a bike helmet and instead just tell her not to fall off or get runover" is not comparable to saying "No extramarital sex, no condoms".
that would depend on the true price of sex, really.And I mean cost in the economist sense.
If the price of sex unprotected is as high as the price of riding a bike unprotected, the comment is valid.
If the price of sex unprotected is as high as the price of riding a bike unprotected, the comment is valid.
No, saying 'don't ride a bike' is the same, not saying 'ride a bike unprotected'.
I concede.For my part, I'm going to defend my viewpoint.
I don't hate catholics. But I do have some massive, fundamental disagreements with the doctrine and teaching of the catholic church. I'll extend that, and say thats the same with most religions.
I don't hate catholics. But I do have some massive, fundamental disagreements with the doctrine and teaching of the catholic church. I'll extend that, and say thats the same with most religions.
I have a major problem with pretty much anyonewho thinks they are right and is intolerant of others.
Intolerance is something that I find it hard to tolerate.
Intolerance is something that I find it hard to tolerate.
it's not bigotry or prejudiceif it's based on objective principles rather than straightforward discrimination
it's not bigoted to oppose the body of the Catholic Church due to their pronouncements on homosexuality and AIDS, to give an example.
See the opposition that exists to visits by world leaders with similar opinions (Mbeki and Zemin to think of two recentish examples)
it's not bigoted to oppose the body of the Catholic Church due to their pronouncements on homosexuality and AIDS, to give an example.
See the opposition that exists to visits by world leaders with similar opinions (Mbeki and Zemin to think of two recentish examples)
You are discriminating not against the popebut against the catholics who want to see him.
Being a Rat Catcher is their choice. I cannot see why you think it is okay to be opposed to a large cultural group in a democracy?
Being a Rat Catcher is their choice. I cannot see why you think it is okay to be opposed to a large cultural group in a democracy?
Unless you are really saying'people who have different beliefs to mine'?
where those beliefs involve discrimination against certain groups, yes
to me someone professing to be an active orthodox catholic who observes Rome is hence also an actively practising homophobe and so I will be opposed to their beliefs. That's not bigotry.
to me someone professing to be an active orthodox catholic who observes Rome is hence also an actively practising homophobe and so I will be opposed to their beliefs. That's not bigotry.
Yes.Yes it is.
In fact, that is pretty much precisely what bigotry is.
In fact, that is pretty much precisely what bigotry is.
bigotry is characterised by generalised intolerance.I'm completely tolerant of Catholics in pretty much every other belief they have that I do not hold, such as the magic sky pixies.
May I suggest that you look up 'bigotry'?You keep defining it.
may I suggest that you take all 20 volumes of the 2nd edition of the Oxford English Dictionary and shove them up your arse?
If I'm intolerant, I might as well do it properly.
If I'm intolerant, I might as well do it properly.
Essentially, you are saying that you willdiscrimination against certain groups where you feel that they discrimination against certain groups.
Reminds me of the Daily Mail comment about hanging 10 year olds because killing kids is wrong.
Reminds me of the Daily Mail comment about hanging 10 year olds because killing kids is wrong.
I disagree with people who say xI will hence argue against group y who say x
this is because they are saying x, not because they are group y
bigotry would be to be against group y whatever they were saying
I have no intrinsic issue with catholics, just the parts of the catholic message that go against pretty fundamental points of enlightened modern society.
this is because they are saying x, not because they are group y
bigotry would be to be against group y whatever they were saying
I have no intrinsic issue with catholics, just the parts of the catholic message that go against pretty fundamental points of enlightened modern society.
You state that, to you,anyone professing to be an active orthodox catholic who observes Rome is hence also an actively practising homophobe.
Yet the Catholic church is not openly homophobic (although I do not doubt that many of it's members are).
The Roman Catholic church is opposed to any carnal act which does not promote both union and procreation.
Yet the Catholic church is not openly homophobic (although I do not doubt that many of it's members are).
The Roman Catholic church is opposed to any carnal act which does not promote both union and procreation.
from the Catechism:"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered." They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity."
Yes.That fits in very well with a belief that any carnal act which does not promote both union and procreation is a sin.
then whydoes it need separate treatment and exposition? Why do they need to mention it at all if it's already covered as you say?
Because, and I'm no religious scholar mind youso this is only my take on things, it's because they hate bummers.
this ^and as a followup they dont like condoms cos they want those folk to catch the aidz and die oh and darkie heathens also.
is that because coons raped the greatgreat grandmothersam i wrong?
probably ate more than raped, but its only a minor technicality
it was aTrue Romance quote.. but its only a minor technicality
ahi can never remember stuff like that
Great fucking film.I particularly like Val Kilmer in it.
he's the worst thing in itbut then he's rubbish in everything
Because the question was asked,one would assume?
difference isthe Dalai Lama is a president as well as a religious leader
separation of church and state - we should foot the bill for our state hosting other state leaders, and churches should foot the bill for hosting church leaders.
separation of church and state - we should foot the bill for our state hosting other state leaders, and churches should foot the bill for hosting church leaders.
I agree that events, accommodation etc should be paid for by the churchbut security should remain the responsibility of the state
but if I host an event that requires police presencethen I can usually expect the bill for it in the UK
very much thissporting events, music events etc have to pay for policing.
I didn't realise that`
they're generally allowed by the policeto save money by having a majority of the security done by private security, but the police will still insist that they're involved at whatever level and charge accordingly.
Only for events.Not for individuals.
The Pope is a state leaderthe Vatican is independent of Italy.
Mindyou, the population of the Vatican is, what, 1000? So in "state leader" terms he's really nothing. The heads of Andora, Monaco and Lichtenstein rank above him in those terms.
it woudl also be facinating to know what the difference between the figure for "baptised catholics" and "church going catholics" is. I reckon the latter figure may well be quite a lot smaller than the former, but it is the former that is used when the Vatican asserts its importance (much as the Church of England doesn't use "attrendance figures" when justifying their influence on British politics)
Mindyou, the population of the Vatican is, what, 1000? So in "state leader" terms he's really nothing. The heads of Andora, Monaco and Lichtenstein rank above him in those terms.
it woudl also be facinating to know what the difference between the figure for "baptised catholics" and "church going catholics" is. I reckon the latter figure may well be quite a lot smaller than the former, but it is the former that is used when the Vatican asserts its importance (much as the Church of England doesn't use "attrendance figures" when justifying their influence on British politics)
similarly the dalai lama's status as head of state is weakYou do realise that you'd do exactly the same thing with the figures if you were talking about the Catholic church in relation to something negative, such as aids?
But that would be siding with the evil paedophiles?All Catholic priests rape small boys in order to spread aids, you know. Bad aids.